Eye on the Triangle

Erie Mitchell 0:00
The views and opinions expressed during Eye on the Triangle do not represent WKNC or NC State student media.

Erie Mitchell 0:14
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Ellie Feaga 0:37
Good morning triangle listeners. I'm Ellie Feaga. With your special report today, many NCSU students and community members are aware that there has been PCB contamination found in Poe Hall. And today I am sitting down with Provost Arden to learn more about it. And to find out how NCSU staff is currently working to address the issue. I am here with the provost is a privilege to have you.

Provost Arden 1:00
Thank you, Ellie.

Ellie Feaga 1:01
And I have some questions about what's going on at Poe hall. Can you start by giving us the diagnosis? What is the contaminant found in the building?

Provost Arden 1:09
Sure. So early in November, we were informed that some preliminary tests showed a PCB polychlorinated by phenol, by the name of aroclo 1262. There are over 200 Different PCBs. So our preliminary tests showed a presence of this PCB in certain areas of the building. And then as we got confirmation of those during that first week, we made the decision pretty quickly actually, the very next week, to empty the building for the safety and the welfare of the inhabitants of the building, while we did a more thorough assessment of the building. And so that's the phase that we're in now is a more detailed thorough assessment of the building by experts who have hired to come in, they have a lot of experience in environmental contamination and buildings, a company called Geosyntec, who works all around the world. And right now they're in the phase of doing extensive environmental tests throughout the building. Last week, we reserved the results of the first phase of that testing. And just to explain, the way they're doing the testing is, first of all, to turn off the H Vac system, because we believe or we think the contaminant has something to do with the H Vac system, and to do an analysis of the static condition of the building. And what the analysis shows is all they did from memory, 14 air sample tests and 67 surface tests. And what the analysis shows is several things of importance. Number one, they did in some of the samples detect a PCB and is aroclo 1262. As we thought, number two, the test show there are no other PCBs, and we haven't found anything other than that specific PCB. And interestingly enough, with the HV H vax system off, and the static phase of the building are the number of samples that were positive was actually, very low, all of the air samples were negative. Two thirds of the surface samples were negative 1/3 of the samples showed very, very low levels be below the EPA Environmental Protection Agency recommended limits, and only one sample that was taken from a window seal in our office showed a level of that particular PCB above EPA limits. So we got a lot of information from that first round of testing. The next round of testing will be to turn the heat vac system back on, let the building a cooler break, and then rerun all of our air and surface samples. We're also going to be taking samples specifically from the H vac ductwork to see if we can get more definition around where this particular agent is coming from.

Ellie Feaga 4:27
How did they find out that there was a problem to begin with? Is this is regular testing that they do?

Provost Arden 4:32
No, it's not regular testing our Division of Environmental Safety in public health. Public Safety I'm sorry, environmental health and public safety responds when there are either major renovations going on in a building or faculty concerns. Poe Hall had a history of both some faculty concerns around air quality in the building. But prior tests that had been done by environmental health and public safety had not revealed any significant issues. And those are mostly associated with asbestos and mold and those kinds of things. And with association with the renovation work that was going on in the building, their testing also didn't show any issues. Somewhere in late October, it was recommended that we might look for some PCBs as well. And they did those tests in late October, as I say, we got those results in very early November. And then we acted really quickly as soon as those results were confirmed.

Ellie Feaga 5:42
It seems as though PCBs are generally associated with building materials. Is that right?

Provost Arden 5:47
That is correct.

Ellie Feaga 5:48
Are there any other buildings that are maybe built around the same time time as Poe Hall that are up for concern?

Provost Arden 5:54
Yes, and no. Areother buildings built. And the period of concern is 1950, through about 1979 is where those materials were used. And they're often used in adhesives and sealant materials. The reality is, I say yes, because we have probably about 100 buildings on campus that were built during that period, the same concerns have not been raised. And we think that a big part of the issue is Poe Hall, has a very unique construction. So it's not simply when it was built, it's how it was built. So in Poe Hall, the way it was built is the H vac system is actually built into the structure of the building. So it's very difficult to access or exchange out in nearly every other building, or we've already exchanged the H vac systems on and that we believe is a potentially an important factor. You know, also note that there are probably 1000s of buildings to built during that period, across the UNC system across government buildings across the state as a whole. So, PCBs, unfortunately, a pretty common, you more commonly hear of contamination associated with soil issues and groundwater issues. Actually, having contamination associated with our H vac system is quite unusual. So we think this is most likely a specific Poe Hall issue. But either way, we need to figure out what's going on with Poe Hall first, and then go from there.

Ellie Feaga 7:49
Education classes are being housed in new places as of now, is that right?

Provost Arden 7:53
Correct

Ellie Feaga 7:53
The education school is unique because it requires certain resources for student teachers that other colleges maybe don't necessarily need. Are there resources that the School of Education had in Poe hall that they are no longer having access to? Are they able to get those same resources in other locations.

Provost Arden 8:09
So when we made the decision to close Poe hall, or new people, which was November 30, we made the decision we announced that publicly a couple of days later, and then it was fully implemented the following week. There was a lot that we needed to do to be able to continue the important work that was going on in Poe Hall. So we needed to shift students surfaces, we need to relocate the faculty, we needed to relocate the classrooms for the spring. And so this was an enormous amount of work. So the student services have been relocated to Hill Library. And so the library's system with Greg Rasky worked very closely with us. They were really phenomenal, have made rooms on the second and third floor of Hill Library. And so education students, students services are currently located in her library. We've located faculty of those in the CGI building on Centennial Campus. We were fortunate that a tenant in that building had recently moved off campus, and we were able to do a sublease. That was still a lot of work to get done very quickly. And then perhaps the heaviest lift of all, was relocating 240 sections involving over 4000 students that were going to be delivered in that building over the spring. And we've got all of that done over the Christmas New Year break ready for the spring semester.

Ellie Feaga 9:54
Wow that is seems awfully fast. But it's it's good that they're moved and Um, I'm glad to know that even though they're separated, they're still able to access the resources they need,

Provost Arden 10:06
they still are able to access the resources. Now, I'm sure there are, we also have to move some research labs, because the education, college, of course, is not the only folks in that were in there was also home to the Psychology Department, which is the largest department in college of humanities and social sciences as well. So those faculty also had to be relocated, those classes relocated, and their research labs relocated as well.

Ellie Feaga 10:35
I have one last question for you. And I know that you may not have a definitive answer at the moment, but is it likely the school will come back to Poe Hall at all?

Provost Arden 10:44
Well, we certainly hope so. That's our aim. But there's a lot that we have to do between now and getting that answer. So we have two focuses at the moment. One is to complete the testing of the building the environmental testing of the building. As I mentioned, we're about to go soon, in the next few weeks into the second phase of that testing with the hatrack system reactivated. That will take several months to get those answers. We're also looking at material directly from the ductwork as part of that second phase of the assessment. And then the other part of it is, now that we have results from the first phase, and we know we are dealing with aroclo 1262 We know we're not dealing with any other PCBs. We want to begin a a health assessment of inhabitants of the building. And with that, we're working with NIOSH, the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health, which is really, people get a little confused. That's not a regulatory agency. It is a research arm within CDC, that helps us work on these specific kinds of problems. So we're working with NIOSH, and with the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, the building, per se, in terms of its evaluation, really is under the auspices of the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency. So there are a lot of state and federal agencies to work with, we're very pleased to have their partnership, they've been very supportive and cooperative. Unfortunately, all of these testing and evaluation takes time, I expect the second phase of the building environmental tests will take three months from now, perhaps the health assessment could take many more months. And I know that, like me, folks are impatient for answers. People would like to know, the answers both on the environmental side on the health side, it's going to take a while to get all of that put together, we're working as quickly and as transparently as we can. And I know sometimes folks get frustrated with not having all the answers that I want today or tomorrow. But we all have to be a little bit patient as we work through this. The final part of it from a building perspective is remediation. What do we do, it's not going to be if this was any other building. And you found that the problem was the ductwork of H vac system, for example, you would pull out the ductwork of H vac system, you'd probably pull out the original generators as well, and just replace it all. And that's what's being done in a lot of buildings in Poe Hall is going to be very, very difficult because it's built into the structure of the building. So we will be looking at all remediation options, so that we can assure folks that there is not the emanation of PCBs, or this particular PCB from the h vac system. So to go through all of that takes a long time, at the moment sort of were in step one of this. And it would really surprise me to be honest with you, if we were able to complete the environmental study complete the health study. Really understand the remediation that needs to be be done and complete that remediation this year that would that would really surprise me. I think we're looking into next year. And then what I would hope is that, you know, we're ready to move back into Poe Hall. That's that's the event room.

Ellie Feaga 14:53
Well, thank you Provost. It was great having you on I'm so glad that you filled us in on what's going on at Poe Hall. Is there any thing else you'd like to add?

Provost Arden 15:01
No, thank you Ellie. You know, I really appreciate that. This is difficult for folks and the Chancellor and I and vice chancellor Mamoni knew when we made the decision to close down Poe Hall shift 450 people out classes for over 4000 students that this was going to be bumpy, this is going to be difficult and I'm just going to be frustrating for folks. Nobody likes to be disrupted like that for a pure extended period of time. But we're working our way through it. We're determined to be diligent and precise about this. So that eventually folks have competence in returning to the building and power wall kind of return to its original function.

Ellie Feaga 15:47
That's great. Thank you so much. And I hope that you guys got some insight listening to the Provost. Tell us more about what's going on at Poe Hall and this has been Ellie Feaga with Eye on the Triangle.

Erie Mitchell 16:20
This has been Eye on the Triangle I'm Erie Mitchell your guest host right now. Thank you so much for listening to this. You can listen to back episodes of Eye on the Triangle at wknc.org/podcasts Under Eye on the Triangle or just any of the other podcasts we have on WKNC. Thank you so much.

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